Ken Wilber on Seeking Enlightenment
www.spiritualityinthemodernworld.com – Ken Wilber discusses seeking enlightenment in the modern world in this clip from the new DVD Spirituality in the Modern World: A dialogue with Ken Wilber and Traleg Rinpoche
Duration : 0:8:46
[youtube 3E8CAWawn2g]
you mother …
you mother don’t cheet the world
As an antidote for …
As an antidote for what Wilber says here and his ilk (mind you, I like a lot of Wilber’s other ideas) do a google search for “Why The Notion That You Cannot Become What You Already Are is Such Bullsh*t” to read a brilliant refutation of the “you are already enlightened” error.
of course you’re …
of course you’re right that pushing things down requires effort and energy, and when we’re doing that we don’t evolve. Still this is so common a behavior that it’s almost automatic in most cases-and we don’t notice how that process steels big part our life energy.
judging and labeling others means to not see their or our own humanity in that moment.
To try to see differently IS an effort. Not one where you use a lot of muscles and violence,no. It’s the gentle effort to stay present with life.
ok, works now. i …
ok, works now. i want to evolve,call it spiritually,in how i look upon my own emotions and my negative judgments about other people and myself. to not blindly follow my judgement but to see what’s behind it, and to stay empathetic to people whose behaviour challenges me morally and in other hard ways is NOT easy, and i’ts what i’m trying to do.
This is my third …
This is my third try to comment, my answers keep disappering. Frustrating!
Hello barbrob, I …
Hello barbrob, I read your message and noticed that you “want to evolve spiritually”.
You may come to understand that spiritual enlightenment, and its capacity for total acceptance and compassion, does not in fact require any effort whatsoever.
Denying something requires effort, accepting does not.
I mean you no disrespect and I apologise if I offended you in any way.
Only giving you some pointers, in case you wanted a shortcut.
All the best.
Enjoy!
Enlightenment is …
Enlightenment is not something you seek. It is something you accept and allow for. Superconsciousmedia blog
There is no …
There is no enlightenment. Humans are dumb fking fools. You can manifest any belief you want. there is no way you can separate. you simulate all kind of crap. All same.
Grow up humans
Ask questions. Never agree or disagree.
it’s interesting u …
it’s interesting u say that if we didn’t judge we’d have to throw our morals out.see i disagree! i don’t believe in morals based on good guys and bad guys,on right or wrong. i know that even if i didn’t judge anyone for what theyre doing,my heart would tell me(and even more than now, that i can’t help judging!!) yea,my heart wd tell me where i want to go&where not., what kind of behaviours in others i want to join and support,and what kind of initiatives id like to take2make life more wonderful.
it is NOT by …
it is NOT by labeling another person i will feel more compassion. my comment got lost. anyway, i feel happy for you if studying kw has helped your ability to be compassionate.of course my mind keeps judging and labeling. the big effort is not to listen to it,which isn’t easy. as long as i believe to better and more right than someone else i will feel entitled to not respect them fully and not listen to them. then actually i do not evolve spiritually,which is of course what i want to do.
Honey,I’m …
Honey,I’m notgoing2argue w anyone about anything,cos no matter what i will say to them no real exchange will happen as long as the energy is”argue”.it’s not important 2me 2be right,cos i don’t even believe such a thing exists as right opinions.For me people can believe in whatever kind of evolution they want, it’s all just story, content, anyway.
And yes honey, I believe that a child has the same needs as i. only a child satisfies their intellectual need in much different ways from how I do it.
@barbrob Also, he …
@barbrob Also, he integrates his critics better than I’ve seen anyone do. I have seen him incorporate valid critiques in his books and he integrates the work of many thinkers east and west. He is constantly integrating new evidence, hence, his Wilber I – IV stages. If he were to integrate invalid critiques of the integral model it would corrupt the model.
@barbrob Yeah, I …
@barbrob Yeah, I wish youtube would fix its commenting system.
For what it’s worth, I have found that doing KW et al.’s Integral Life Practice has dramatically increased my compassion towards others and my ability to really be present and understand their problems with openness and where I can help them. If you are following Wilber and you are becoming less compassionate, which can definitely happen, then there is something that you are misinterpreting.
@barbrob For …
@barbrob For example, you know that a child has different needs than an adult and you know your dog doesn’t have to read a book to satisfy his intellectual needs because his level of development puts his needs in the physical – emotional area and knowing that helps you to take proper care of your dog.
@barbrob I agree …
@barbrob I agree that we need to listen and need to be careful with our judging but discriminating wisdom is important and all people use it whether you want to believe it or not. We all judge people. Just watch your thoughts when you walk down the street. If we didn’t judge, we would have to throw all our morals out and that would be a disaster. Labelling can also lead to greater understanding if it’s done properly and with the right intentions.
@barbrob @barbrob …
@barbrob @barbrob So you, basically, have to just say, well, they have a fundamentalist worldview that is incompatible with the scientific worldview so there’s no way we can come to a resolution. (another crazy, long answer. can’t seem to help it this morning)
oh that’s true of …
oh that’s true of course. But I don’t believe that it will lead to anything positive at ALL if I put myself as the judge of another person’s level. Or if anyone else, including KW does so. I believe labeling leads to distance. The best we can do when communicating with another being is to listen to what they are really saying, and which needs they are expressing, may the way they do it be ever so clumsy or elegant. all humans have the same needs, so it’s no use to classify others.
@barbrob For …
@barbrob For example, if you are arguing with a fundamentalist religious person about evolution, they can always say that the fossils were created by God on the on the sixth day or something and meant to look like there were dinosaurs and meant to look like the universe is around 14 billion years old and there’s nothing you can say from science that could convince them otherwise.
@barbrob To deny …
@barbrob To deny all hierarchies is to deny Spirit’s own unfolding in the universe, and really, the integral movement is another attempt of Spirit to discover the many ways in which it unfolds and how it all fits together. Spirit is discovering itself through us. Sometimes, you kind of have to dismiss or resign from a discussion if the person is so embedded in a narrow worldview.
@barbrob The most …
@barbrob The most sensitive areas are cultural development because people can misuse hierarchies to repress people of different cultures but that’s not what integral theory is meant for. It’s meant to show the healthy unfolding of Spirit so that we can become more conscious of Spirit which is, ultimately, our own higher Self.
@barbrob Spirit …
@barbrob Spirit moves through growth hierarchies in evolution as it transcends itself to create higher wholes. We can see this with atoms to molecules to cells to organisms, etc., in language from letters to words to paragraphs, etc., as well as with psychological and spiritual development and, really, anywhere we look at in Life we find Spirit transcending and including itself creating this magnificent universe. Each level transcends and includes its predecessors.
@barbrob Yes, I …
@barbrob Yes, I realize that’s a big issue people have and he does as well. People are very wary about hierarchies nowadays because of all the patriarchy, racism, sexism, etc. that we have only recently made huge strides with in the west since the civil war. His point is that we can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are oppressive hierarchies that we need to throw out and growth hierarchies that we really must not.
my replies show in …
my replies show in opposite order. it’s a mess. read from bottom up.
That kind of …
That kind of attitude does not help us towards bigger understanding or empathy, and also doesn’t allow us to truly meet the other person. Now why doesn’t he integrate his critics???
well, you are …
well, you are obviously honest in your belief that KW is coming from his heart. What can I say? I hope you’re right. It’s just that this kind of jokes AND all that interest he shows in cathegorizing people in different colors (!), and seeing most issues on a structural levels scares me. Ir scares me because I don’t believe that that kind of vision helps us towards a better world.
I have heard him dismiss critics because they are of an inferior level.